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Thread: Best defenseman on the Flyers

  1. #41
    Richards's Shoulder Sling B23M's Avatar
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    Haha this stuff isnít ruining the board. Itís somewhat entertaining.


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    aka BeerMan.

    Quote Originally Posted by ConspiraCeeZ View Post
    You guys are a bunch of insufferable cunts.

  2. #42
    Philly Sports Forums LLC Senior Counsel FlyerDuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyney View Post
    This right here. If I do a 'deeper dive' into those advanced numbers I can make them say something different.

    All that said, this thread is totally bumming me out. Never thought I'd see this. Parts of this asshole fanbase have no idea what they have in Provorov and don't deserve a winner.
    QFT
    Originally Posted by DrunkenCoatsey
    This thread here, I'm pretty sure it what the Internet was made for. A never ending battle to summit Mt. Retard.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Banger View Post
    the argument isn't that he's the best dman in the league...of course there are better dmen that he could be a #2 to...largely the ones you mentioned which are essentially Norris candidates. You don't need to be a Norris finalist to be a #1 dman. Did you ever notice that every dman that plays with him magically improve their game tremendously? Now all the sudden Gost has turned the page and it's directly related to playing with Provorov which is not unlike Couturier playing with G...you play with better players and they tend to make you look better.

    He has the most turnovers because he handles the puck against the top players every night in the toughest situations and drives the play by far more than anyone else. You know who has more turnovers than him Brent Burns, Carlson, Klingberg, Letang... If you are really going to analyze his effectiveness you need to look at clean zone exits because he makes more higher risk plays which often lead to clean zone exits as opposed to bouncing the puck off the glass or banging it up the boards. you would also need to look at attempts vs. giveaways because the # of giveaways alone might not mean much...looking at the number in a vacuum doesn't tell the whole story.

    as far as CF...who's ahead of him and who do they play against vs. who he plays against....who gets the tougher zone starts? again, completely misleading.
    Well said Banger.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyney View Post
    This right here. If I do a 'deeper dive' into those advanced numbers I can make them say something different.

    All that said, this thread is totally bumming me out. Never thought I'd see this. Parts of this asshole fanbase have no idea what they have in Provorov and don't deserve a winner.

    Steps on to an NHL roster right from juniors and in a couple months was the defacto team #1 defenseman yet that's no good. These "fans" see Haag in the AHL for 3 fucking years before he gets a role, sees Sandheim take a step backward this year, sees Morin unable (albeit probably due to injury more than effort) to gain a foothold on a spot yet but hey, Provorov makes a bad play now and again so he sucks.

    Holy fuck the eye bleeding brain frying moronic insanity in this thread alone let alone this board is beyond measure anymore.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TherienLiesTheProblem View Post
    The argument appears to be that it's absolutely outrageous and ridiculous to say "Provorov is probably a little overrated by the fanbase" and "he's a good 21-year-old defenseman in his second season who the team asks too much of. He'd probably be best off as a #2 right now, and he's nowhere near Norris caliber."

    In typical board fashion, there was a huge overreaction to a reasonable point. And that's what I mean, Banger. So many Flyers fans act like Provorov is already a stud #1. Near Norris caliber. And you can see it in the overreactions to what I've said in this thread.

    No, what Provorov is is a very good young 21 year old defenseman in his 2nd year who is the best all-around defenseman the Flyers have. Hence, they rely on him a lot, but it's probably more than would be ideal at this early stage in his career. He's going to be elite, but he's not there -- yet.

    He makes a lot of mistakes. Though, when he makes them, they tend to get ignored or glossed over as opposed to when other defensemen make them because he is a well-liked player (and for good reason).

    NHL.com didn't rank him in the top 20 NHL defensemen. His possession stats don't come anywhere close to the defensemen who are often thought of as clear #1s. You can excuse his giveaways and point to Burns, Carlson, Klingberg, and Letang, but Burns, Carlson, and Klingberg are 1, 2, and 3 among NHL defensemen in points. Provorov is 30th. We're talking 25, 21, and 18 more points than Provorov. Also, Burns, Carlson, and Letang each have more than double the takeaways that Provorov has.

    It seems convenient to say Ghost has "turned the page and it's directly related to playing with Provorov." Ghost has been good for most of the season, even without Provorov, and earned his right to play on the first pairing with Provorov. Sure, it helps playing with Provorov instead of MacDonald or Hagg, but it should help Provorov, too. I think Ghost deserves more credit himself than you are giving.

    As for zone starts, MacDonald and Hagg have a higher % of defensive zone starts 5 on 5 than Provorov. AMac 65.2% (2nd highest in the league), Hagg 59% (23rd), and Provorov is 54.8% (58th).

    I will absolutely grant you that defensive zone starts can affect Corsi, however, even though there's misinformation out there about it not mattering based on one article many people misread/misunderstood. As for quality of competition, if you are a first-pairing defenseman, you're going to face high quality competition. They all do.

    I don't know where to find the zone exit stats, but I did read an article a month ago that cited some stats and Provorov was 2nd to Ghost in both clean 5 on 5 zone exits and zone entries. He was roughly tied with MacDonald for 2nd in zone exits, so that isn't any great shakes. Ghost was easily first in both. I would like to find a site that has those stats.

    I hate even having to say I think Flyers fans slightly overrate Provorov because I'm a huge fan of his and people get defensive and interpret it like I'm saying Provorov isn't any good. Which isn't anything close to what I'm saying. He's just not the stud #1 -- yet -- that he's often made out to be. But he does an admirable job handling all of the responsibility and minutes at age 21 in just his 2nd season, and I've often said I see him becoming another Desjardins.
    Superb post.

    Provorov can do no wrong on this board even when he plays a terrible game like last night. Any criticism of his play causes the posters on this board to go crazy.

  6. #46
    Artist formerly known as kindczar zeusam's Avatar
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    Nature always corrects and there's going to be a culling soon.

  7. #47
    Seasoned Veteran TherienLiesTheProblem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentj View Post
    Steps on to an NHL roster right from juniors and in a couple months was the defacto team #1 defenseman yet that's no good.
    A. Who said what Provorov has accomplished so far as a 2nd year 21 y/o defenseman is "no good"?

    Quote Originally Posted by agentj View Post
    These "fans" see Haag in the AHL for 3 fucking years before he gets a role, sees Sandheim take a step backward this year, sees Morin unable (albeit probably due to injury more than effort) to gain a foothold on a spot yet but hey, Provorov makes a bad play now and again so he sucks.
    B. Who said Provorov "sucks"?

    No one. Certainly not me.
    Quote Originally Posted by FLiP View Post
    I hope Tiltp dies in a car accident or Jeff skinner gets concussed.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TherienLiesTheProblem View Post
    A. Who said what Provorov has accomplished so far as a 2nd year 21 y/o defenseman is "no good"?



    B. Who said Provorov "sucks"?

    No one. Certainly not me.
    "Look at ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME"

    I think you might need a comfort dog. Something.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDogKelly View Post
    Superb post.

    Provorov can do no wrong on this board even when he plays a terrible game like last night. Any criticism of his play causes the posters on this board to go crazy.

    Like I said .... "fans". Like I said .... "middle school lunch table".

    Here's the poster child for both live and in color.

  10. #50
    Seasoned Veteran TherienLiesTheProblem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentj View Post
    "Look at ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME"

    I think you might need a comfort dog. Something.
    Why are you avoiding two very simple questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by FLiP View Post
    I hope Tiltp dies in a car accident or Jeff skinner gets concussed.

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