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Thread: The #2 Pick and Sean Couturier

  1. #11
    Defensive forwards are obsolete unless they're super high % faceoff guys. Couturiers faceoff stats were better this year, but not enough to offset his lack of scoring or justify his salary.

  2. #12
    Does Couturier get you Evander Kane?

  3. #13
    Bad Pun! Bad Pun! Marvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLiP View Post
    Being a shutdown center is all well and good, but the top caliber guys score a lot of points. The last time a Selke winner scored less than 50 points was Chris Draper in 2003-2004 with 40 points, but he also score 25 goals.

    The closest is John Madden in 2000-2001 with 38 points. That is creeping up on 20 years ago.

    He's a decent option for a checking center. I just don't know if that is a valuable enough commodity at 4.3 Million a year for the next 5 years.

    If he is not going to score 45+ points he is going to need to add something else to his game, as PhillyB alluded to above. I just dont think he has it.
    And both of those guys were 50%+ FO% guys, and also had the speed and snarl you refer to that Couturier doesn't have.
    "He is not a top 6 but a decent enough D-man to be a 3rd pairing." - Dave Schultz #8

    "Strange how people who suffer together have stronger connections than people who are most content." - Bob Dylan

  4. #14
    All Star Tidal22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyMac View Post
    I think Couturier is fine as a 3rd line center. I don't think it was a coincidence that he started to play better when he was put in that role after the trade deadline. Still, FLiP makes a good point about his Cap Hit. Is $4.3M a good cap hit for a guy that might hit 40 points when healthy, plays good defense and kills penalties?
    With all due respect....

    This isn't the point I want to debate. The point is right now you have:

    NHL CENTERS:

    Giroux (8+ million)
    Filppula (5+ million - UFA)
    Couturier (at 4+ million)
    Bellemare
    Vecchione
    Cousins
    Laughton

    PROSPECTS:

    Rubtsov
    Patrick/Hischier (presuming)

    Are we assuming at this point that Couturier is too good to move for something else you need, given that you have glut of NHL centers and NHL caliber prospect centers (assuming Patrick or Hischier is the pick)? Couturier "is fine as a 3rd line center" may be true, but the questions is can ANY of the guys listed below Couturier, either in the NHL list or the prospect list, take the 3rd line job, allowing Couturier to be dealt for something that fixes lines 1-2 and isn't a huge detriment to line 3?

    If we were a cup contender now, I'd say no, you don't move anyone from the core, but we're a team that seems to be fixed to spend another 1-2 years in this rebuild, meaning Couturier will be 26-27 by the time we are a potential contender and our prospects should be "mature". Right now, it seems to me, if you can find a fit, it makes perfect sense to deal him, whether or not he is ok as 3rd line center. I don't believe we don't have a single player in that list capable of scoring 30pts and being a respectable defensive player. Beyond that, if anyone thinks Couturier will remain a better player than Rubtsov or Patrick/Hischier, then we'd better start looking to trade that 2nd overall pick, because you're in a load of shit.
    Much like Ron Hextall, I will not mortgage my future posts on rental posts.

  5. #15
    All Star Tidal22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adurn View Post
    Defensive forwards are obsolete unless they're super high % faceoff guys. Couturiers faceoff stats were better this year, but not enough to offset his lack of scoring or justify his salary.
    That's part of it, but the other part, for me is that he's slower, not particularly physical and lacks a sense of urgency during a lot of the year. Last year he had a nice little run at the end of the year where he was at least a bit more physical (going to the net, etc) and a bit more aggressive, but overall, he's the poster child for analytics nation that says Couturier and Read are valuable assets, because they're "shot suppression" specialists or "puck possession" guys. I'd never have a purely "defensive forward" unless its' a 4th line guy, if it were up to me.

    I've always believed....If you build a team to defend, you will defend. It's just like war, in the sense that, if you build fortifications and wait to be attacked, you'll be defending. If you build a team to attack, you'll attack and create more offense, based on pressure. You'll also take pressure off your defense. Say what you will about being overly aggressive, I'd rather have a team built to force mistakes rather than one that gives every opponent multiple cracks at figuring out where they're weak defensively. Beyond that, with the defense they're supposedly building with Ghost, Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, Myers, Hagg...do we really also think we need to build into that 2 checking lines?
    Much like Ron Hextall, I will not mortgage my future posts on rental posts.

  6. #16
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    I've been lambasted for offering Couturier plus 2018 1st for Drouin. Sure it may favor TB a bit more than us but they have something we need and both guys could probably use a change of scenery.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant Owl View Post
    I've been lambasted for offering Couturier plus 2018 1st for Drouin. Sure it may favor TB a bit more than us but they have something we need and both guys could probably use a change of scenery.
    The Flyers will be as bad if not worse next year so I wouldn't be offering a 1st round pick in any deal.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrogant Owl View Post
    I've been lambasted for offering Couturier plus 2018 1st for Drouin. Sure it may favor TB a bit more than us but they have something we need and both guys could probably use a change of scenery.
    What did Yzerman say?

    Just kidding, I couldn't resist.
    Much like Ron Hextall, I will not mortgage my future posts on rental posts.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poulin228 View Post
    The Flyers will be as bad if not worse next year so I wouldn't be offering a 1st round pick in any deal.
    Why would they be any worse? They're certainly not drafting this high again next year, and I don't think there's anyone that is of elite nature in next draft class and we're getting to the point where the cupboards are stocked with decent prospect, why not use it to fill a known gap?

  10. #20
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    I don't think he gets you Evander Kane in a million years. If so, I will drive he ass to Buffalo. I don't know if Couturier and Sanheim gets you Kane. I think we overate Sanheim on this board. He was traded for a lot and he brings a power forward element to a team that is very, very hard to find anymore.

    I understand your questions Tidal and I agree with you 100%. We have too many centers and no LWs but I just don't know what he would be worth to another team. They would have to find a coach/ gm that believes that they can still find more offense from him or grit I guess. Can he get you a 2nd line LW? probably not, I don't know. A third line LW, you would think so?

    If they can't get anything other than someone else's Laughton (ie disappointment) that plays left wing, would Hextall do it, should he? I saw a list of the top 30 free agents and it is perfectly dreadful. You would think that would improve the trade market but I have no idea.

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