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Thread: How does Hextall still get a pass with so many fans?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by abstract View Post
    The biggest problem is how long it will take the youth to be ready and will that be longer than when Giroux and Voracek's prime years.
    This is something I've been saying for 2 years....

    You still have to integrate in Myers, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Lindblom, etc, as the next wave and before you can do that they need to get some time and you'll need to find out if they are actually all players. If that's the route you're going I can't see that possibly happening in less than 2 seasons. By that time you're going to be paying Ghost, Provorov and others and you'll still have your other contracts like Giroux and Voracek, so if the cap doesn't significantly rise, you're right back to being capped again, with a few younger players, as we are today. That's exactly why I brought up the Hartnell trade and how the cap clearing measures turned more into asset allocation and not savings.

    If they put 2-3 of those young D in next year it's going to be a total trial by fire situation and a lot of growing pains, but it's like ripping off a bandaid...at least it's done. If they ease in 1 or 2, you're talking about a 2 year phase in and then maybe in year 3 or so they're all competent to be meaningful players (if they succeed). Obviously, simple math means Giroux is 32 by then, Simmonds 31, Voracek 30 and you're probably still capped.

    A potential trade could change all of that, but who knows what Hextall has on his mind on that front
    Much like Ron Hextall, I will not mortgage my future posts on rental posts.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange&Black View Post
    .

    On the flip side....I agree he should have sat on some of the cap savings rather than signing a guy like Weise or extending Neuvirth. It's hard to read what his goalie plans are....hopefully he's not left standing without a chair when the music stops.
    I'm becoming more convinced that Neuvirth has been signed to be the backup and also to be the exposed goalie. McPhee is not going to claim him with better goalies available and we (hypothetically) have another two years of solid 1B netminding assuming this season is the outlier. The Flyers, along with the Stars and Vegas will be in unique positions to probably get a new starting goalie for a premium after the season ends. So I can see why he wouldn't lock in on Mason. And there's little risk. You'll have Mason, Raanta, Darling, Grubauer, Elliott or Johnson, Fleury, Halak, Bishop, Miller or Markstrom, Luongo or Reimer, Howard, Budaj, Bernier, Niemi and Varlamov to pick from.

    It also shows they don't have a ton of faith in Stolarz, but that's pretty apparent anyway.
    All in my head, but it makes a lot more sense than the idea he's planning to roll with Stolarz and Neuvirth.

  3. #23
    Administrator / Number One Super Guy jsp92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic View Post
    I like his work at the draft and his ability to get value for his declining vets. Getting Weal, Gudas, Konency, two 2nds, two 3rds, Filppula and a 4th for Coburn, Timonen, Streit, Lecavalier and Schenn is a win. I also agree with his patience with most of the prospects.

    I dislike about everything he's done for the "now" - the trades, the coach, the assistant coaches, the refusal/inability to improve this roster. But I think he couldn't give two shits about the current state of the team. Let the kids develop until they're ready. Surround them with "good vets" like Bellemare and wait it out. He has a lot of time to build this. They're not going to fire the last guy Snider wanted - and I read somewhere that Hextall and Holmgren were tasked with keeping the Flyers' identity. This guy's here for the long haul.
    I agree with the first part spot on. Partially with the second. The only NOW moves I've hated are the Raffl, Weise (didn't hate it until he stunk on the ice this year. If he had come in and scored 15 as a 3rd liner at that price.... fine) & Schultz signings.

    This off season is going to be decision making time for me as to the tenure of Hextall as GM. I want to see how he handles the expansion draft and the money that is coming off the books. Need to ramp up the offense and still needs to look for a goalie. I think the blame for this season falls on the players. Not the coach or GM. Lots of players not executing this year.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jsp92 View Post
    Partially with the second. The only NOW moves I've hated are the Raffl, Weise (didn't hate it until he stunk on the ice this year. If he had come in and scored 15 as a 3rd liner at that price.... fine) & Schultz signings.

    This off season is going to be decision making time for me as to the tenure of Hextall as GM. I want to see how he handles the expansion draft and the money that is coming off the books. Need to ramp up the offense and still needs to look for a goalie. I think the blame for this season falls on the players. Not the coach or GM. Lots of players not executing this year.
    I'm hard-pressed to find a lot of moves for the present I've liked. I didn't mind the Hakstol hiring - thinking outside the box is fine - but then surrounding him with inexperienced assistants, especially Ian Laperriere has annoyed me for two years. The special teams have also been a letdown. The PK shouldn't be this bad and the PP lives and dies on the exact same system since Berube. There's no variation. To me, that falls on inexperienced coaching.

    I had no issue with the Schultz extension, because none of the kids were ready anyway and he's not taking a spot from a prospect this year. He's Hall Gill. I'm more agitated that Manning gets minutes every night than Schultz's $2 million retirement salary.

    Raffl and Weise are overpaid and Tidal is spot on there with that criticism. Its essentially the Hartnell money + more cash and term when you lump in the multiple years remaining + the buyout on Umberger. Horrific asset management. Also on Bellemare, fine if they think he's great in the room but doubling his salary given all his limitations is also a waste. If he's not in Philly next year he'd probably be back in France or a Swiss league.

  5. #25
    Moon Blard FLiP's Avatar
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    1B netminding. What planet do you live on.l?
    Quote Originally Posted by TherienLiesTheProblem View Post
    Gauthier played on Aube-Kubel's team, so they've seen him plenty of times. Hextall did seem to shift and touch his face when asked about Gauthier -- some would say it was a poker tell, although probably just a coincidence.
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  6. #26
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    Where's ST3CPO with his woodchipper?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by FLiP View Post
    1B netminding. What planet do you live on.l?
    That's what he's been the past 1 1/2 years, hasn't it? I doubt they gave him a $1 million increase to play a lesser role.

  8. #28
    I <3 Subaru Snapdad's Avatar
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    His reputation isn't going to be made by his handling of 4th line players. The blue chip prospects and rebuild is 98% of it and that seems to be on track. Currently there are a grand total of 2 of his draft picks on the team so there isn't really much of substance to evaluate him with. Those 2 look good so that's good I guess. The placeholder team looks incomplete and flawed so that's not good but also not what he is here for really. Coach hire is looking not so good IMO. Some depth signings are not so good but also not as important. Overall I have to go with incomplete. I'd be much more concerned if the prospects were not developing as hoped but that is not the case. They all seem to be doing well and the patience seems to be helping in that regard.

    The trying to make the playoffs while rebuilding is the biggest impediment and that was dictated to him by the owner and upper mgmt. I don't like that but also recognize that their (successful) business model isn't going to change in the near term so it does me no good to get apoplectic about it. Still its annoying they wont go all in and try to get some elite forward prospects to go with their D. This team is being set up to be a boring NJ devs style layering team without that. They may win but they wont be exciting without elite forwards. That's the cost to this approach unless they totally luck out on a couple picks and I hate to see it left to luck. In any case its a done deal and the time to tank has past and I just have to hope it works. If not then by all means fire the GM and try someone else's 5 year plan. I don't really care other than I want to see them win a championship FFS.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapdad View Post
    His reputation isn't going to be made by his handling of 4th line players. The blue chip prospects and rebuild is 98% of it and that seems to be on track. Currently there are a grand total of 2 of his draft picks on the team so there isn't really much of substance to evaluate him with. Those 2 look good so that's good I guess. The placeholder team looks incomplete and flawed so that's not good but also not what he is here for really. Coach hire is looking not so good IMO. Some depth signings are not so good but also not as important. Overall I have to go with incomplete. I'd be much more concerned if the prospects were not developing as hoped but that is not the case. They all seem to be doing well and the patience seems to be helping in that regard.

    The trying to make the playoffs while rebuilding is the biggest impediment and that was dictated to him by the owner and upper mgmt. I don't like that but also recognize that their (successful) business model isn't going to change in the near term so it does me no good to get apoplectic about it. Still its annoying they wont go all in and try to get some elite forward prospects to go with their D. This team is being set up to be a boring NJ devs style layering team without that. They may win but they wont be exciting without elite forwards. That's the cost to this approach unless they totally luck out on a couple picks and I hate to see it left to luck. In any case its a done deal and the time to tank has past and I just have to hope it works. If not then by all means fire the GM and try someone else's 5 year plan. I don't really care other than I want to see them win a championship FFS.
    I think you've done a good job of capturing what Hextall thinks and believes. The main area where I disagree with him, and where I think a lot of people like me disagree with him, is in that the NOW doesn't matter at all. At some point, what you're hoping to do is have enough youth coming up, combined with enough talent on your roster, to hit a good long window of potential championship run. The core players in Giroux, Simmonds and Voracek, are too good to just waste. Your 2nd layer of "core" guys is Couturier, Schenn and Read. If nothing changes, they'll be here beyond Giroux, Simmonds and Voracek, but they're not anywhere near as good. So you're truly relying on your 3rd layer, which is all prospects, albeit some good ones.

    My whole point is making 1 move, to help right now, could significantly speed up the process, without necessarily significantly setting back that 3rd layer of core guys. There comes a time where you have to risk a little of the future and I think they're at that point. At this point your future is set and anything you give up you could recoup in a couple years by dealing off 1 of Giroux, Simmonds or Voracek, but without any moves, I don't see how you're going to get out of this middling funk, especially with this coach and the mid-aged players like Couturier, Schenn and Read.
    Much like Ron Hextall, I will not mortgage my future posts on rental posts.

  10. #30
    Moon Blard FLiP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyerFanatic View Post
    That's what he's been the past 1 1/2 years, hasn't it? I doubt they gave him a $1 million increase to play a lesser role.
    No. No he hasn't. He's a career backup.
    Quote Originally Posted by TherienLiesTheProblem View Post
    Gauthier played on Aube-Kubel's team, so they've seen him plenty of times. Hextall did seem to shift and touch his face when asked about Gauthier -- some would say it was a poker tell, although probably just a coincidence.
    Trigger Warning
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